MyDD :: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia

MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia

by NY Writer, Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:44:48 AM EST

There's an old joke (was it WC Fields?) of a contest, in which the first prize was a week in Philadelphia, and second prize was two weeks in Philadelphia. (No offense to Philadelphia. The joke is decades old and doesn't represent the city now)

Move On has a new ad that tries to be anti-McCain and anti-Iraq. It shows a young mother with her little baby who says to McCain, "You can't have my little Alex for your war." As someone who has connections to the military, I can tell you that an ad like this may appeal to the already-converted in our party, the extreme left, but will alienate the soldiers who are open to the Democratic party for the first time in years. In other words, if your party is offering benefits to vets that the GOP isn't, but at the same time we're insulting military service through a dumb, emotionally-provocative ad (as they see it), which aspects wins? Sometimes one, sometimes the other.

I like Move On and respect what they're trying to do. But for a good part of the country, anti-war is not a political winner. You can be anti-this-war, but to hold your baby and say "He won't serve in the war," (not knowing what condition the world will be in fifteen years) implies that if necessary, someone else's baby should serve--if your assumption is that there's a reason to have a standing military in the first place.

I don't expect any on the far left to understand what I just said, just as I think those on the far left think only four Democrats have won presidential elections since 1952 because the other losing Democrats weren't being liberal enough and "true to what they really believe" in their campaigns. Obama himself obviously has a deeper understanding of how to win, as he tacks to the center on issues ranging from campaign finance to (unfortunately) FISA to today's article about his support for ethanol.

First Prize for Obama: a Move On ad proporting to help him with demographics that aren't already in the pocket.

Second prize: no Move On ad.

Tags: Moveon, org, Democratic self-sabotage (all tags)

Permalink :: 27 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

I think the Military will understand as they also don't want their brothers and sisters and children fighting this terrible war.

by Politicalslave on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:55:19 AM EST

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

You think? That's your mentality and the mentality of the brave ones who came home from Iraq and turned against the war. You and they are already voting Democratic--so, as I said in the last line, the already-converted.

That's not the most prevalent military mentality, which is obvious to anyone in the institution. Most often, soldiers will be adamant to see meaning in having served in this (meaningless) war, and this is an insulting ad.

by NY Writer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:59:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

Have you read the other diary next to yours on Kristol. It sounds like your thoughts are taken from the New York times article. Which doesn't matter to me but I think the move on ad is fine.

by Politicalslave on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

I read Kristol, but had seen the ad a week ago. My thoughts as represented when I saw the ad--which was such a bad idea as to be laughable. I didn't realize it needed to be said, as I tied to forget it as fast as possible. Reading Kristol made me realize that I needed to say this as a Democrat.

As for Kristol, what's the expression? "A broken clock is right twice a day."

by NY Writer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:11:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

My comment to Kristol:

Dear Mr. Kristol,
I read your op-ed this morning about the Move On ad, where you take them to task because we have an "all volunteer" Army (well, except for all the stop lossed soldiers). You never mention the fact that John McCain has stated he will do "anything to win" the war in Iraq, and that he will "never surrender", though how one surrenders in an occupation of another country is frankly puzzling.
It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that McCain would reinstitute the draft, since he's always complained that we don't have enough troops in Iraq.
Maybe he might get desperate enough to increase our age of recruitment to include older people like you, who love to talk about war in abstract and yet lead a life of complete "narcissism" as they never have to face the horrors contained within.

Isn't that ad talking about people like you, Mr. Kristol?

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:32:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

The commercial leaves the question open, will little Alex's mommy lets him serve eighteen years from now if we elect Obama? Come on Little Alex's mommy would not want him to serve in 2026 no matter who gets elected President for the next 18 years. The author is correct this ad send the wrong message and only manages to "preach to the choir". It's about as helpful as that "General Betrayus" add. By the way how did Obama vote on that resolution. Oh yeah he took that tough political stance he is famous for "Present". Sorry but it is getting tough being a Democrat. We have nominated a candidate who opposes everything but believes in nothing.

"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"

by RedstateLib on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:09:04 AM EST

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

Barack Obama gave the Republicans' meaningless MoveOn resolution exactly what it deserved: nothing. If only the rest of the Democratic caucus had followed his lead and walked out of the chamber.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:15:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

Why didn't he stand tall and vote a big solid nay rather than run away and hide behind another present vote. Sorry you want to praise him fine but try to set a standard then ask him to live up to it. I spent eight years battling "Bush Apologist", if I have to I'll spend eight years battling "Obama Apologist". It is called "integrity" you and the Senator from Chicago need to become aquainted with the word.

"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"

by RedstateLib on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:31:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

Ah yes, so personal attacks are the rule of the day. Very nice.

The MoveOn vote was political theater - nothing more. It's a testament to Reid's ineptitude that it even made it to the floor. The Democratic Caucus in the Senate would have been best served treating it as meaningless political theater, walking out the door to meet on education policy or foreign policy, and letting the Republicans look like the tools they are.

But, of course, if you're inclined to see everything Barack Obama does in the absolute worst possible light and then write off anyone who disputes your hateful interpretations as an "apologist," you're free to. Just don't expect to be taken seriously when you do.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

So now pointing out his voting record is personal? Excuse me would some of you apologist please put together a list of what we can and can not question about the man you are asking us to support for the Presidency. Can we question his voting record? Can we question whether he stands up for what he claims to believe in? Can we question whether he keeps his promises to voters? What exactly are we allowed to judge him on? Sorry You are going to have to let us know the "new rules" since you claim that they are not the same rules we have been playing by for the last eight years. By the way whether you hate the military or not personally attacking General Petraus was stupid and now that same group cries foul every time questions anything about Obama's record. You cannot have it both ways no matter how much you cry foul. If you want others to take a stand when you are attacked you must be willing to do the same even for those you don't agree with.

"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"

by RedstateLib on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:51:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

No, claiming that I, who you do not know and have no acquaintance with outside internet postings, need to learn the meaning of the word "integrity" - implying that I have none - is a personal attack, and is wholly inappropriate. Please apologize.

I'm not crying foul that you're attacking Obama's record. That's one of the things people do in campaigns. I'm defending his record, because I think that in this case it's a good one; he did the right thing in calling the Republican MoveOn resolution meaningless, because it really was.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:54:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

No apology coming. Integrity would have been taking a stand on the record not hiding away behind a present vote. If you do not realize that is what integrity is about then you do need to look it up yourself. Let me put it this way based on his record of keeping his word or being a stand up guy Obama is not proving himself to be the type of man you would seal a deal with a handshake on, and those who defend his lack of character can not be judged any better based on their own low standards. You don't like it too bad I call it as I see it and if you don't like it you should have stayed a Bush supporter because a lot of us Dem's won't cut your new guy the same slack those Republicans did your last guy.

"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"

by RedstateLib on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am deeply suspicious (none / 0)

of cases where someone picks an issue and claim it defines your "integrity". It says much about the critic's value system, but little about the criticized.

Integrity is not always something you can see from the outside.

by Neef on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:51:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am deeply suspicious (none / 0)

From Dictonary.com

"1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty."

Honesty is a key and central premise of integrity. Integrity can not exist in a situation that is not honest. Spin it anyway you like but the truth is the truth and there can be no integrity in a dishonest act.

"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"

by RedstateLib on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 07:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whose morality? whose ethics? (none / 0)

Yours, I assume? Or do we now abide by a Uniform Ethics Code, and you're just more familiar with it?

In my world, a "present" vote defines a very narrow slice of a man's integrity. You're equating it to the totality. I think that's patently absurd.

It's your right to think as you do, but again, it reveals you much more than it does Obama.

by Neef on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 08:23:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whose morality? whose ethics? (2.00 / 2)

"a" present vote is of little concern, even the 6-8 that was with the cooperation of Planned Parenthood...it is the other 120 or so that no elxplination has been forthcoming on...

by zerosumgame on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why do "present" votes (none / 0)

Demand any more or less explanation than any other kind? It's one of three possible positions, do the Yea's and Nays get an automatic pass?

'presents' simply make it harder to characterize your positions, which obviously is a problem for you, but just as obviously was the point for him.

I'm not saying that obstruction where you want clarity isn't annoying. But trying to make it a morality play is, once again, absurd.

by Neef on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:41:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do "present" votes (none / 0)

yes a "present" vote does demand more of an explination then a yes or no one, what caused him so much concern he felt he could not have a clear vote on his record? A no vote one can explain, a yes vote could be spun if needed. A present vote is just CYA on some level. And thus does it demand more of an explination since he is considered one of the 2 candidates to lead the country.

by trytobereal on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I also found the ad ham-handed. (none / 0)

See this diary.

by JJE on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:56:36 AM EST

Re: I also found the ad ham-handed. (none / 0)

I'm with you on that one.

by NY Writer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:01:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

Hmmmm
A few questions..
Are you a vet?
Do you personally know someone serving in Iraq/Afghanistan?(Who has served) and asked their opinion?

Sorry but your diary smells a bit trollish..
However, if you have genuine concerns..folks here can help you..

http://ivaw.org/

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"

by nogo postal on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:03:54 PM EST

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (none / 0)

I'm not a vet. I know about fifty people who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Does that help?

by NY Writer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MoveOn.org and Two Weeks in Philadelphia (2.00 / 1)

I am a VET and yes I personally have members of my family serving. I stand by what I said. Preaches to the choir. I don't see her wanting little Alex to serve no matter who gets elected. By the way you people do know that even if he wins 2 terms McCaine still would not be President in 2026 when Alex is old enough to serve.

"Do you know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?"

by RedstateLib on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:31:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're over-thinking it (none / 0)

it's a "fear" ad, aimed squarely at security moms. The goal is to pose a dilemma between "fighting to keep us safe" and "MY kid getting drafted to keep us safe".

I'm sure some GOP thought the Willie Horton ad was overdone, too. These things aren't philosophical positions, they're propaganda.

All that said, I thought it could have been more effective and less blunt-weapon-ish. My wife, the mother of four, says she gets it and thinks it will be effective.

by Neef on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:20:44 PM EST

Re: You're over-thinking it (none / 0)

But if you win security moms and lose the military who happen to (contrary to what one might suppose) NOT be enamored with war vet and former POW John McCain) is an ineffective ad.

by NY Writer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:22:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sorry (none / 0)

responded to you below. Damn reply function ^_^

by Neef on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:31:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Granted (none / 0)

unless you have already ceded most of the military. War Hero versus Harvard Elite is probably not an area Obama can contest very well.

by Neef on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:30:37 PM EST

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